Archive for the ‘dating methodology’ Category

The Indian woman who went to Korea and became the Queen – the Korea-Indian connection – Do the pro-Tamil groups want to communalize it? [3]

May 24, 2018

The Indian woman who went to Korea and became the Queen – the Korea-Indian connection – Do the pro-Tamil groups want to communalize it? [3]

 Prof Nagarahan - korea - India

The claims of V. Nagarajan and Antartica Tamizhan: Nagarajan’s paper continues, “The materials gathered from multiple sources which includes intentional and unintentional resources related to the first century CE. Reveals that there was no kingdom by name Ayodhya in north India.  Further the cartographic maps particularly the Greek cartography highlighting the Eastern Hemisphere clearly showed the existence of Ay kingdom in south India and not in north India.

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_100bc.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_050bc.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_001ad.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_050ad.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_100ad.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_200ad.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_300ad.jpg

http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_400ad.jpg

The visual pattern clearly shows the evolution of Gaya kingdom in Korean peninsula over a period from BCE 100 to 400 CE.  The maps also clearly indicate the change in Tamilnadu all the kingdoms including the Ay kingdom were replaced by the Kalabras.  The presence of Ay and Kongu in Tamilnadu when the Gaya kingdom emerged will help the researchers to formulate a hypothesis to establish the Korean Queen Indian princess connection. The present paper goes to prove that historizing  the legend may lead to a tenable hypothesis that the princess be from south India particularly from Pandiya kingdom than from the Ayodhya kingdom”. Then, he concluded with, “The present paper further points out the direction for future research initiatives by proposing a new paradigm with new hypotheses, methodologies and new models”. Ironically, all these narratives are available in “Mintamil” website, where  one “Antartica Tamilan” has posted in Tamil. Though, we do not know whether Nagarajan has copied from “Antartica Tamilan” or both are one and the same person, it is evident that the “research” has been biased, preconceived and concocted much against the research methodology.

Korea Queen - tamilachi ruled

The aggressive U-tube propaganda on “Sembavala Rani”: As pointed out, the same stuff is converted into U-tube with photos and circulated. Particularly, they chose to praise heavily Kannan and Orissa Balu for the excellent, marvellous and extraordinary discover made[1]. Suggestuve narrative,  prompting description and story-telling pattern expose the propagandist nature. Particularly, these videos have been with same photographs, same narratives with male and female voices[2]. “Coral Shree” consolidated all stuff available in “Mintamil” in another video[3]. She claims that she has only discovered the tortoise route, similar jewelry worn by Tamil and Korean women, the fish symbol, “Sembavalam” and so on. Thus, it is evident that these have been “stage managed” and aimed at propaganda and self-promotion using their expertise. Under the banner of “Tamil Heritage Foundation,” they have brought a book “Historical, archaeological, linguistic, cultural and biological links between Korea and India – Kaya and Pandya” by Kannan and obviously translated in Tamil “Koreavin Tamil Rani”.

Korea Queen -RJB-photo

Provocative captions chosen for U-tubes: Some of the captions chosen for U-tubes have been following:

1.       The Korean goddess was a Tamil woman – the Korean embassy has been in confusion because of plot hatched by India. This has been blatantly anti-Indian nature, as if India tries to confuse the origin of the queen, tracing Ayodhya instead of ancient Tamizhagam.
2.      The goddess of the Korean people was a “Tamlilachi” – a suppressed History of Tamils. Note, here “Tamlilachi” connotes a fanatic and fundamentalist expression for Tamil woman. The “suppression” of Tamil history and such other accusations have been absurd and meaningless. Just claims are not enough, unless, historical evidences are produced.
3.      The “Tamlilachi” who ruled Korea. The fanatic and fundamentalist expression “Tamlilachi” has been mischievous and unhistorical.
4.      The other side of History – The Korean goddess was a Tamil woman [With the background photo of demolition of disputed structure at Ayodhya]. This also proves the pro-Tamil, anti-north, anti-BJP propaganda, smacks any worth of research.
5.      The Tamil Empress / Queen of Korea.

 

Whatever may be the origin, the claim of queen, empress, ruling Korea etc, have been far-fetched and unwarranted.

Korea Queen - Tamil history suppressed

What the videos want to convey?: The tone and tenor of the narratives, the way they are presented with photographs, the expressions used “suppressed history of Tamils,” “hidden truth of Tamil queen,” “the lot of India” etc., shows the intention of the U-tubes in circulation. Generally, in Tamilnadu, the Tamil linguistic chauvinism has been order of the day and such groups could exploit people easily under one or the other pretext.  Though, the concepts of race has been proved myth, they have been continue to stick to such unhistorical race hypotheses and theories exhibiting their attitude of racism and racialism. Such ideologists and promoted experts still talk, interpret and write in terms of “Aryan” and “Dravidian” races and so on. The Tamil diaspora, where pro-Tamil, former LTTE associates, radical Tamil activists and such groups have been active with resources, they have been carrying out such propaganda with ulterior motives. At any cost, the “Tamil chauvinism” cannot be boiled, super-heated and turned to “Tamil separatism” with this type of propagandist attitude. So under such circumstances, the videos and related contents with intent, purport and purpose raise many serious questions in the Indian context.

Korea Queen - Indias plan

Researchers cannot be partisan, anti-Indian and separatist activist: Researchers do not accuse each other or present unhistorical narratives with emotional inducement and excitement for any linguistic group with racial tinge. Particularly, Kannan like experts living in Germany, Germany citizen knows very well how racism works in European countries and Tamilnadu. The “Dravidastan” / “Thani-Tamilnadu”claims are made still here in Tamilnadu lon every pretext. Therefore, the narrtives, symbols, photos, used show anti-India propaganda also. Why then these researchers indulge in such activities?  Incidentally, just last month, their associate and partner, Subashini Tremmel[4] indulged in promoting “thomas myth” through a video[5], that has been blatantly unhistorical and supporting church frauds. Former Archbishop was involved with forged research with Achya Paul and the cae went to Madras high court. Though, the case was settled out of court to save the honour of the church and the bishop, it exposed the dubious research, manufacture of forged evidences and fabrication of copper plates. Though, it was pointed out to her, she kept silent. Therefore, definitely, a doubt arises as to what exactly these researchers want to do with Indians and India? As they have been well-resourced, well-placed and well-informed persons, it is unbelievable that they could have involved in such activities.  As few suggestions are added to conclude:

Suro and Heo ok

  1. Historical research should be free from bias, prejudice and preconceived ideas.
  2. As “Aryan-Dravian race” hypotheses and theories have been declared unhistorical, such interpretation would not do any good in research.
  3. Indians cannot be divided on the basis of linguistic interpretation, excessive repetition of myth-making without any regard for history, historicity and historical evidences.
  4. “Kumarikkandam” hypothesis cannot be a basis for historiography disregarding historical evidences and chronology.
  5. In SEA, the lengends, myhistory and narratives have been more in Sanksrit [not that with any bias], supported by inscriptioonal evidences.
  6. The pre-Pallava inscriptions of SEA should be an eye-opener for Indian researchers, as their Pallava inscriptions are dated later.
  7. As people of Bengal, Orissa, Andhra and Tamilnadu interacted with the SEA countries, all of their influences could be found, but, without any linguistic bias.
  8. In act, the contacts of Bengal, Orissa, and Andhra have been more than Tamilnadu, however, during the medieval period, the Cholas had indelible impression on many factors.

©Vedaprakash

24-05-2018

Akanda dravidastan

[1] கண்ணன் மற்றும் ஒரிசா பாலு – போன்றோரைக் குறிப்பிட்டு உலா வரும் வீடியோ –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wu5gucJMLs

[2] Inside Tamil, Published on Oct 1, 2017; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3nzzYP4w6c

[3] coral shree, 2ஆம் உலகத்தமிழ் எழுத்தாளர்கள் மாநாடு, Published on Jun 15, 2017; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWJwATMVlag

[4] https://www.facebook.com/subashini.thf

[5] See her Facebook, U-tube etc., in fact, in “Mintamil” her friends have warned about the myth and advised not be part of such frauds. I have sent an e-mail pointing out the facts, though, she replied he first one, she did not reply to my second e-mail.

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The Indian woman who went to Korea and became the Queen – the Korea-Indian connection – Was she from Ayodhya or Dravidanadu? [2]

May 24, 2018

The Indian woman who went to Korea and became the Queen – the Korea-Indian connection – Was she from Ayodhya or Dravidanadu? [2]

Stone pagoda brought by Heo Hwang Ok

The Pagoda in front of tomb of Queen Hur Hwang-ok was made with stones brought from Ayodhya[1]: In South Korea, her tomb is located in Kimhae and there is a stone pagoda in front of it. It is said that the pagoda is made of stones that she brought from Ayodhya. Describing how she landed in Gaya when she first met the king, she said that the heavenly lord (Sange Je) appeared in her parents’ dreams and told them to send her to the Korea as the king had not found a queen yet. Legend states that the queen died at the age of 157. During PM Narendra Modi’s visit to South Korea in May last year 2014, the two countries agreed that a bigger monument of the princess will be built in Ayodhya. Recently, during a meeting with the Korean delegation, Uttar Pradesh CM Akhilesh Yadav said that the memorial would be constructed according to the Korean architecture. He asked Kim Ki-jae, President of Central Karak Clan Society, to provide the design of the monument so that the government can proceed.

Fishes in Korea in the entrance of Kim Suro (King - husband of Heo Hwang Ok_s) tombstone.

The linkage between Korea and India from Ancient tines seminar on 06-11-2015 at Chennai[2]: Interesting facts came to light at the day-long International Conference on Cultural Exchange between India and Korea in Antiquity, organized by the Consulate General of Republic of Korea and the International Institute of Tamil Studies at Hotel Crown Plaza, Chennai on 06-11-2015[3]. Evidently, to compensate or satisfy the “Tamil groups,” this “day-long International Conference” was organized. In the Republic of Korea (South Korea), Tamil words resonate in homes. And many of the native speakers do not realise they are using Tamil words. For, these words are a part of the Korean language. Amma and appa — denoting mother and father in the Korean language too — are among the first words Korean children learn. These are among the thousands of Tamil words that are part of the Korean language. This surprising and interesting fact came to light at the day-long International Conference on Cultural Exchange between India and Korea in Antiquity, jointly organised by the Consulate General of Korea and the International Institute of Tamil Studies here on Friday. Jung Nam Kim, president, Korean Society of Tamil Studies, said there were words found both in Korean and Tamil and in both these languages, they meant the same thing and were pronounced the same way.

Korea Puzhou Queen mother Huagyu Xu native place.Tamil newutting

Linguistic connection between Korea and India[4]: Other Tamil words found in Korean with the same meanings are: naal (day), uraam (manure), pull (grass), pudhu (new), sourru (rice) and yerru (plough). There are more – vanakkam in Tamil is Vankkaamtta in Korean. Bambu denoting a snake, in Tamil, is Bambu-baem in Korean. Santhosham (happiness) in Tamil is Shantutham in Korean. Recently, the State government started translation of Tirukurral into Korean. “We have a shared heritage. The tomb of Queen Suriratna, an Indian princess, in Gimhae in Korea is a symbol of our shared heritage. In fact, Chennai has the largest Korean population — 4,000 — in India,” Kyungsoo Kim, Consul General of Republic of Korea, said. Rathina Pugalenthi, a scholar from Viruthachalam near Cuddolore district, said that dance forms such as Korean drum dance and Thappaattam in Tamil Nadu had at least 12 similarities in terms of movements, and composition of eight members in a group, including two drummers.

2015 IITS, Taramani conference

“…….mounting evidences to indicate that she was from Tamil Nadu, in particular Pandyan or Aai kingdom”: Rathi Jafer, Director at the InKo Centre, points out that there is the historical journey of Bodhidharma, the monk believed to be from South India who spread Buddhism to China and Korea[5]. We aim to initiate a research project soon to examine the historic links between South India and South Korea, both the ancient trajectories and the contemporary manifestations of this inter-cultural exchange. Of particular interest will be the Buddhist links that existed between the Pandyan, Pallava and the Gaya kingdoms, the manner in which Buddhist scriptures, iconography, language and the introduction of iron and steel are credited as having been transferred from South India to South Korea,” she says. Kannan Narayanaa[6] of Tamil Heritage Foundation claimed that “Researchers thought that Ayuta is actually Ayodhya in India. But there has been mounting evidences to indicate that she was from Tamil Nadu, in particular Pandyan or Aai kingdom. Recent genetic studies by researchers Jeong-Sun SEO and Kim Jong-il on the remains of her tomb revealed genetic similarities between Indians and Koreans……. a lot more research needs to be done”. Without giving historical evidences, he made such claims and ended with apologetic note that “a lot more research needs to be done”! However, his intention has been different as revealed later. P. Banumathi, assistant professor, Department of Tamil in Valliammal College for Women, spoke about how the traditional weaving technology of the State was meritoriously followed in the interior parts of Korea even now.

Akanda dravidastan-balu, kannan

Orissa Balu inventor of “Sembavala Rani” who became goddess of Korea: A Malaysian friend sent a video about a “World Tamil Conference” held May 19th and 20th at Cambodia and asked me to go through and opine. When I watched the video carefully, I could understant that the same Kannan Narayanaa was talking in a different tone. Kannan has already uploaded his paper[7] in 2011, in which, repeating the researches of  Professor Kim Byeongmo and  Parthasarathi, suddenly asserts that she started at Nagapattinam or Mamallapuram, touching Sri Lanka, Nicobar Islands, Java (Bali) and finally reaching Guang-Zhou in China. Without giving any historical evidence, he concluded with “Substantial research is due.” In research, the researcher has to bring out his conclusion based on primary evidences, or secondary evidences with new interpretation. He cannot present the stuff that has already been presented, published etc. Here, the pattern note is that one researcher put forward one hypothesis without any historical evidences, but, linguistic with comparing here and there few words. This is picked up by another as concluded “history,” and adds his hypothesis. In short, the same old stuff, well-known stuff is repeated and and again with embellishment and internet bombardment of U-tubes and so on.

Delegates from Malaysia, May 20-05-2018

Orissa Balu’s old linguistic and racial studies promoting emotional Tamil separatism: Ironically, now he revealed the “inventor of Tamil lady who went from Tamilnadu to Korea” instead of Ayodhya. He was referring to “Orissa Balu” who asserted that the lady was from “Ay kingdom.” S. Balasubraminan from Orissa has been obsessive nationalist enthusiast turned Tamil propagandist. He started telling everybody that Tamil was the first language, from which all languages originated, “Kumarikandam” was there under Indian Ocean, he had gone under ocean and sea portions and so on. Though, he has not been telling anything new, for current generation, such stuff would exite them. Thus, he has become popular amongst the “pro-Tamil” groups and even DK invited him to talk about “Kumarikandam” at Periyar Thidal. The problem with this type of “Tamil researchers” have been that they read and interpret every non-Tamil word as Tamil without caring for other evidences. In 1960s one Arunagiri Nadar was doing that by bringing out small booklets showing all words of world were etymologically derived from Tamil. Later in 1980s, it was picked up, but claimed as his invention by one Sattur Sekaran. Now perhaps, Orissa Balu has come. Ironically, already there has been one Blalakrishnan from Orissa, an IAS officer has also been doing similar type of research, however, methodological.

Korea Puzhou Queen mother Huagyu Xu native place.Tamil Heritage foundation


Nagarajan’s paper on the Korean Queen of Tamilnadu[8]: One Prof. Nagarajan sent a paper to “Mintamil” group for the 2015 one-day-seminar, but, not presented or accepted. The following narrative is taken from his paper. “Though Korea has a long history of its own, until 1300 CE Korea remained as unknown and forbidden land to western world. The first publication of its history ‘Samguk Yusa’ or ‘The Heritage History of the Three Kingdoms’, a treasured work in Korea which was written in the 13th century enabled the Koreans to understand their longstanding history, heritage and legacy.  Based on the premise, Korean scholars believed that their first queen has come from a far of land known by the name Ayuktha.  When they commenced the research they first identified Ayuktha Kingdom of Thailand and subsequently reached Ayodhya of India.  Prima facie they believed that sufficient materials are available to accept the premise that their first queen was the Princess of Ayodhya. According to their sources,the princess from India travelled by boat having red colour flag with twin fish. She was accompanied by her brother and a team of 22 members as an embassy to meet the King Suro of Kaya Kingdom.  She travelled for two months and reached the Koean shore and she married King Suro on 27th July CE 48.  She carried with her valuable presents such as precious stones, tea plants, seven storm preventing stones and 12 stringed musical instrument………………[continued]

 

©Vedaprakash

24-05-2018

Subashini, Orissa Balu, Kannan

[1] https://www.thebetterindia.com/48519/ayodhya-south-korea-queen-hur-hwang-ok/

[2] The Hindu, Words that speak of an enduring link between Tamil and Korean, D. Madhavan, NOVEMBER 07, 2015 00:00 IST; UPDATED: NOVEMBER 07, 2015 09:05 IST.

[3] As per the brochure issued by the organizers and available in the “Mintamil” group website.

[4] http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/words-that-speak-of-an-enduring-link-between-tamil-and-korean/article7853212.ece

[5] DTnext, Tracing ties between Tamil Nadu and South Korea, Published: Nov 06,201506:42 PM.

[6] https://www.dtnext.in/News/City/2015/11/06184227/Tracing-ties-between-Tamil-Nadu-and-South-Korea.vpf

[7] N. Kannan, The Tamil-Korean Relatioonship, Proceedings on the International Seminar on the Contributions of Tamils to the Composite Culture of Asia, Institute of Asian Studies, Chennai, India. 16th-18th January 2011.  – https://www.academia.edu/16555174/Tamil_Korean_relationship

[8] Prof.V.Nagarajan, The legend of Queen Heo Hwang-ok – the first queen of Korea. Historizing her as the princess from India, Virtual freelance researcher; Email: professor.nagarajan@gmail.com, Mobile: 09003271687

 

“Glimpses of Srimad Bhagavatam” – National seminar held at Vijayawada on October 14th and 15th, 2017.

October 16, 2017

“Glimpses of Srimad Bhagavatam” – National seminar held at Vijayawada on October 14th and 15th, 2017.

Location of Hyndavi, Vijayawada

“Glimpses of Srimad Bhagavatam” – National seminar held at Vijayawada: Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti[1](hereinafter mentioned as BISS), Andhra Pradesh conducted two National Seminars on Ramayanam – Historicity and Maha Bharatam – Historicity in 2013 and 2015 in Ongole and Rajamundhry respectively.  In 2017, the BISS conducted a national seminar at Vijayawada on October 14th and 15th on “Glimpses of Srimad Bhagavatam”. Now that “Historicity” was dropped might be noted. The venue was “Haindavi” Bhavan, Street besides Lotus Land Mark[2], Ramalingeswara Peta, Vijayawada-3. Actually, it is in Sector-5, and the location is known as “near Ice Factory”. Hyndavi building, Vijayawada - photo Rajesh PadmarOutstation delegates had some difficulty to reach the venue. Incidentally, the multi-storied building was built, completed and inaugurated last year[3]. Sri Siddheswarananda Bharati Swamy of Sri Siddheswari Peetham (Tamil Nadu) and Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) All India Organising Secretary Dattatreya Hosabale inaugurated the RSS’s regional office ‘Hyndavi’ at Ayodhya Nagar here on August 5th, 2016 (Thursday)[4]. RSS office inaugrated 05-08-2016 Vijayawada

The seminar hall has been equipped with Power point and other provisions. The organizers had made good arrangements – food, accommodation etc., for the delegates. Sri Koti Lakshmana Rao, secretary, BISS has been instrumental in bringing different researchers, scholars and others together.

Haindavi Bhawan -L-R view

Theme of the Seminar: Research Papers were received from scholars, Research Students and people who were interested in History of ancient India / Bharat and its culture, tradition, heritage and civilization. The organizers expressed in their circular specifically that the Samiti desired that the main focus of the presentations in the seminar should be on historical, geographical, political, social, and cultural as well as Dharmic and ethical perspectives. They suggested the following topics in the context:

1.       Viswa srushti

2.      Propositions on Dharma

3.      Astronomical perspectives

4.      Geographical references

5.      Rivers, Mountains, Forests

6.      Piligrimages

7.      Life style of forest dwellers, common people & kings (rulers)

8.     Status & significance of Women.

9.      Systems of Education

10.  Customs & Rituals

11.   Sculpture, Architecture & Fine Arts

12.  Kings, kingdoms, Royal dynasties,

13.  State craft & politics, Systems of State And Governance

14.  Sages, establishments and their influence

15.   Upakhyanas and their influence etc.,

16.  Other related topic also may be considered.

Bhagawata seminar banner on the gate

About 40 papers were presented on the topics suggested, but overlapping. Most of the papers delved upon the devotional, descriptive, narrative, legendary aspects and discourses of Bhagawatham. Perhaps, only one paper delved upon the historical perspective, which touched upon the “Archaeological Evidences for the existence of “Historical Krishna”. In the present-day context, as ideology has been working at the Universities, schools and all other academic institutions and forums, it could be answered and countered only by ideology and not by devotional discourses. Of course, it is required and may be mandatory also at earlier stages of curriculum, hitherto followed as “Moral period / class” provided till 1970s. The “Moral period” was removed and of course, the degradation of sacademics could be noted thereafter in different aspects.

Bhagawata seminar - breafast

Critical edition of Bhagawatam has to be brought out: Critical editions of Ramayana and Mahabharat have been prepared and published by the Baroda Oriental Rearch Institute and Bhandarkar Oriental Rearch Institute respectively[5]. Similarly, critical edition of Bhagawatapurana should be published, so that researchers, scholars and students could conduct their research in the historical perspective. Approaching Bhagawatam in Sanskrit and other regional languages show how the work had been so popular and common among the common people for 2000 years. Though, the narrative, legendary and mythical details vary, the core of the subject matter remains intact and specific. The study / process of manuscripts to determine the original or most authoritative form of a text, especially of a piece of literature and thus arriving at an acceptable version and publication of it is known as “critical edition”. In Literary criticism it is stressing close reading and detailed analysis of a particular text. In such determination of determining the original or most authoritative form of a text, all the available manuscripts are subjected to study. Notably, in “India”(pre-colonial, pre-Mohammedan) thousands and millions of manuscripts had been available, as they were nothing but just like present-day printed books. In spite of the taking away, looting and burning libraries of temples, mutts and Universities, still millions of manuscript are available in thousands of archives, libraries – prove the fact. Perhaps, no other literature of any nation, language or society has been existing in this manner. Therefore, the variance found in Indian literature has been unique, interpolations incidental (other than internal nature of Jains, Buddhists etc) and differences inadvertent. Thus, a critical edition can be prepared.

Bhagawata seminar - hall where held

The hall where seminar was held.

Bhagawata seminar - Limited audience

Limited audience – LHS view.

Bhagawata seminar - Limited audience.RHS

Limited audience – RHS view.

Bhagawata seminar - Mohana, Balamukund, Koti, TVR

Inaguration of the seminar by lighting a lamp.

Bhagawata seminar - paper presenters

Scholars presenting papers.

Bhagawata seminar - paper presenters.more

Researchers presenting papers.

Demythologization in Indian context: In Indian historiographical context, much of “demythologization” is also required. Demythologization as a hermeneutic approach to religious texts seeks to separate cosmological and historic claims from philosophical, ethical and theological teachings. Rudolf Bultmann (1884-1976) introduced the term demythologization (in German: Entmythologisierung) in this context[6]. It is to provide an explanation of something, or to present something, in a way that removes any mystery surrounding it. Here, actually, history has been mythologized to reach all and common people with easy understanding. The following have been generally noted as feature of mythologization of different aspects and subjects of humanity:

  1. Deification of personalities raising them to Godhead and God.
  2. Attributing miracles, grand feats, great exploitation, controlling nature etc.
  3. Recording Natural disasters (floods, volcanic eruptions, earth-quakes, submergence of land mass and other land disturbances) in their own fashion of divine scourge, punishment of God and so on.
  4. Good would always prevail over Bad, evil, injustice etc.
  5. “Cakravarti-kshetra” i.e, a king ruling vast area with unlimited or traditional boundaries (Himalsyas in the north, Kanyakumari / ocean in the south, Eastern Ocean in the east and the western ocean in the west)[7].
  6. Concept of dwelling land, continent changing from island (Jambudwipam, Navalanthivu) to the above boundaries.
  7. Movement of asterisms, planets etc., and their attribution to great personalities and gods.
  8. Synchronization of rites, festivals and celebrations with days, weeks, 15-days, 30-days, year and so on (Lunar calendar).
  9. Attribution of cyclic periods, growth of plants and trees, flowers and fruits top a particular god or Goddess.
  10. Existence of personalities for many years – 100, 1,000 etc., denoting existence of such ashrams, mutt etc.

Bhagawata seminar - second day started with prayer

Second day seminar – starting with a prayer.

Bhagawata seminar - second day -audience

Methodology adopted and adapted by the Puranic writers – a way of historiography: They are nothing but Puranas and they were updated during the course of time many times. The updating is nothing but adding details upto the date of updating, thus, if one Purana was uptated in 1500 CE, it would contain details upto 1500 CE from the beginning. Revising, renewing and modernizing Puranas was considered as imortant in those days. All the above topics would havealso been updated depending upon the acumen of the updating experts. However, reading such revised editions of Puranas (in manuscript forms), the wesern researchers and European colonial history writers presumed that such and such Purana was written in 1500 CE instead of 300 BCE, 500 BCE or even 1000 BCE. The Jaina[8] and Buddhists[9] had resorted to update in their own fashion by including their affairs and thus, they could bee seen in the manuscripts of Ramayana and Mahabharat also. But, no historian would accept that the dates of Jainism and Buddhism could go back to those periods. Though, the date of Ramayana has been entangled with “Yuga” calculations, the date of Mahabharat has been fixed to c.3102 BCE[10].

© Vedaprakash

16-10-2017

Bhagawata seminar - paper presenters receiving certificate-1

The paper presenters were given certificates.

Bhagawata seminar - paper presenters receiving certificate-2

This lady-researcher from Rastriya Sanskrit Vidhyapit, Tirupati presented paper in Sanskrit.Bhagawata seminar - paper presenters receiving certificate-3

This researcher from Rastriya Sanskrit Vidhyapit, Tirupati also presented paper in Sanskrit.  His way of presentaion, expression and body language had been so articulative conveying mesage to the listeners.

[1] A society for collection of data for history writing for Bharat, that is India.

[2] This created confusion for auto drivers and they took the coming delegates in opposite direction and the reaching the venue.

[3] The Hindu, RSS’s regional office ‘Hyndavi’ inaugurated, Vijayawada, August, 05, 2016 00:00 IST; Updated. August, 05, 2016 06:06 IST

[4] http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/RSS%E2%80%99s-regional-office-%E2%80%98Hyndavi%E2%80%99-inaugurated/article14552939.ece

[5] Critical edition is an authorized sort of version of Itihasa, after going through available thousands of manuscripts by hundreds of Pundits, scholars, historians etc., separating interpolated verses and arriving at acceptable version.

[6] Though, he used in the biblical context, in India, we can use in Indian context. For us, the Puranic writers have themselves have shown the methodology of mythologization and demythologization of history for the different groups of audience.

[7] D. C. Sircar pointed out in his book on epigraphy.

[8] Jains created 24-tirtankaras and made them existing in Ramayana and Mahabharat periods.

[9] Buddhists had created the concept of “Adi Buddha” existing in every yuga.

[10] This has traditional date but recorded in inscriptions and now proven by atronomical and planetary pisition software. Incidentally, this date has been associated with – starting of Kaliyuga, subnergence of Dwaraka, Niryana of Krishna, and other events.

How is that Indians still do not know as to “Good Friday” is “Good” or “Bad” or that day is for mourning or celebration?

March 29, 2016

How is that Indians still do not know as to “Good Friday” is “Good” or “Bad” or that day is for mourning or celebration?

why Indians do not know about Good Fridsay 25-03-2016Business people want to do business on holidays: In a week filled with public holidays including Holi, Good Friday and Easter [(25-03-2016 (Friday), 26-03-2016 (Saturday) and 27-03-2016 (Sunday)], e-commerce sites have tried to capitalise on the four-day weekend by luring shoppers with heavy discounts[1]. It is quite natural thay business people want to do business on holidays! Therefore, the use of term ‘good Friday’ in a promotional campaign by E-commerce firm Snapdeal on Good Friday, a day observed to commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, triggered a row, after which the company apologised[2], as reported by the Indian press is intriguing. It added the feason that the content of the promotions did not go down well with members of the Christian community, as despite its name, Good Friday is not a day of celebration. Instead, it is the day on which Christians commemorate the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. It is a day of fasting and penance for the community. It is in this context that some Christians felt that the advertisements put out by Snapdeal and Myntra were in bad taste[3]. Though, these media-guys suddenly became so “christian” to defend christians had not been intelligent enough to poin out the faux pas. Ironically, the so-called intelligent or secular Indian media did not point out when the ads were put on.

Snapdeal Good Friday 40 percent offerSnapdeal and Myntra offers on Good Friday: Issuing an (sic) statement, the e-tailer said: “We regret the tag line used. It is an error on our part”. “We extend our sincere apologies to all whose feelings we may have hurt inadvertently. We will work to ensure that something like this never happens again,” said a Snapdeal spokes person[4]. To cash in on the extended weekends due to Holi and Good Friday, Snapdeal had sent promotional e-mails to its customers with a subject line “It’s a really really good Friday|Flat 40% Off[5]. Another retailer Myntra also reportedly run a similar promotional campaign offering steep discounts ranging from 50 per cent to 80 per cent to its buyers on the day[6]. Despite several efforts, Myntra company officials could not be reached for comments. However, a section of people (Christians) felt offended to this as Good Friday is not a day of celebration.

why Indians do not know about Good Fridsay - Christians object-25-03-2016It (the objection of Christians) started with Goa: “I was appalled when I got the app notification from Myntra,” said Fernando Monte Da Silva, a journalist from Panjim in Goa. “I was shocked at the ignorance and insensitivity on display.” Silva said the prefix “Good” often misleads people into thinking it is a day for celebration. There are several theories surrounding the etymology of Good Friday, one of them being that the day is “good” because Christ showed his love for mankind by dying for their sins. However, Silva said this confusion could not be used an excuse in the case. “I had a professor who wished me for Good Friday, but that is an honest mistake,” said Silva. “In a company as big as Myntra, I would assume that there would be levels of scrutiny before such content is (are) put out. Ignorance is one thing, but when you’re using it as a promo to generate revenue, that’s just taking it a tad too far.” Silva shared a screenshot of the alert on his Facebook page and triggered a debate over whether sheer ignorance was at play or whether the content writers had pushed the boundaries of creativity. Thus, this news was also created out of Twitter only!

While few BJP leaders were wrong, Modi was correct on “Good Friday”: The faux pas occurred on a day when two senior BJP leaders were today left embarrassed after they set Twitter abuzz with criticism by “wishing happiness” on the occasion of Good Friday. After all when the business people with all nuances could not know “Good Friday” is “bad”, how the poor BJP leaders know. Any way, Modi tweeteed, “Good Friday is a day of prayer & a day to remember the noble, pious & compassionate thoughts of Jesus Christ, that touched many lives”! Any way, these Hindutwa guys have not been so sophisticated as the crooked, atheist and secular Karunanidhi who wishes and weeps dramatically for all non-Hindu festivals or mournings without fail, even if they forget.

Tech In Asia ‘s campaign against campaign:  Eye-popping sales and deals of the week are pretty standard marketing gimmicks for retailers across the world, online or offline[7], thus noted one Techniasia. In India, where ecommerce is seeing breakneck growth, taking up any opportunity to promote sales has become a pretty standard deal. There are Diwali sales, Christmas deals, regional celebrations and in true American fashion, even back to school campaigns. However, it has failed to record that these campaigners too had gone in “American fashion” but, took it as “Black Friday”! Over the weekend, two Indian biggies – Snapdeal and Myntra, owned by Flipkart – pushed the envelope so far, it all fell apart. They used Good Friday, the day observed to commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, as promotional material. Not surprisingly, customers lashed out online, thus, Techniasia continued its big lie, as if “all customers” indulged in such lashing out. “We know it’s a Good Friday when you get 50-80 percent off,” said a Myntra campaign[8]. Snapdeal went along similar lines, saying it was a “really really good Friday,” peddling a flat forty percent off campaign on the website. Snapdeal has since apologized for the faux pas, but Myntra just told Tech In Asia it had no comments i.e, they could not be reached[9].

Indians do not know Good Fridsay - Modi and his collegues-25-03-2016Snapdeal’s Arvind confessed that they were ignorant about Good Friday!: That’s telling, given how a marketing campaign in these companies would have to be vetted and approved by an entire team before it went live, and couldn’t simply be a slip by one person. “There is pressure of increasing sales on all retailers, and it’s not just on online ones. But this purely a reflection of the ineptness of the marketing department at these companies,” chairman of management consulting firm TechnopakAdvisors told Tech in Asia. However, most industry watchers said this wouldn’t make a lasting dent on either company’s brand image. India is a secular country, but about 80 percent of its population is Hindu. Industry experts say the blunder may have been lost on a number of customers, who themselves may not be well acquainted with the significance of the day of mourning. “This is ignorance, but this won’t hurt the companies in the long run. When it comes to brand image, I don’t think customers will remember for too long,” Arvind said.

Black Friday and Good Friday in American way: BlacThe business people obviously confused with “Black Friday” (sales and shopping) with “Good Friday”! Thanksgiving Day in the United States (the fourth Thursday of November). Since 1932, it has been regarded as the beginning of the Christmas shopping season in the US, and most major retailers open very early (and more recently during overnight hours) and offer promotional sales. Black Friday is not an official holiday, but California and some other states observe “The Day After Thanksgiving” as a holiday for state government employees, sometimes in lieu of another federal holiday such as Columbus Day[10]. Many non-retail employees and schools have both Thanksgiving and the following Friday off, which, along with the following regular weekend, makes it a four-day weekend, thereby increasing the number of potential shoppers. It has routinely been the busiest shopping day of the year since 2005[11].

Has Christianity and Christ failed in India?: From Snapdeal to Myntra amd politicians do not know about the significance of “Good Friday”, how common people of India know? For example, how many of Indian Christians, who were converted from Hindu religion really know about it mourn? The missionaries had been fooling the heathen Indians, idolatrous Hindus and what not for the last 300 years, but, yet, the “enlightened” converted Christians could not understand the theology of Good Friday and Easter. This clearly proves the religious fraud, failure of Christianity and Christ and utter uselessness of their theology. Why then thousands of missionaries of A to Z denominations come here, spent millions and loot millions to foll Indians and also fool themselves. Let them take a relook at themselves, as the commericial companies did blunder.

© Vedapraksh

29-03-2016

[1] Scroll.in, ‘It’s a really really good Friday’: Myntra, Snapdeal irk Christians with ‘insensitive’ ads, by Scroll Staff, Published Mar 25, 2016 · 08:10 pm.   Updated Mar 25, 2016 · 08:11 pm.

[2] The Financial express, Ecommerce: Snapdeal, Myntra eat humble pie on Good Friday sales, By: PTI | New Delhi | March 25, 2016 11:25 PM

[3] http://scroll.in/article/805679/its-a-really-really-good-friday-myntra-snapdeal-irk-christians-with-insensitive-ads

[4] Hindusthan Times, Snapdeal’s faux pas: Good Friday sales tagline backfires, PTI, New Delhi, Updated: Mar 27, 2016 02:39 IST.

[5] http://www.financialexpress.com/article/industry/companies/ecommerce-snapdeal-myntra-eat-humble-pie-on-good-friday-sales/229613/

[6] http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-snapdeal-apologises-for-using-really-really-good-friday-as-tag-line-for-sale-2194084

[7] Techinasia, Two of India’s biggest startups really missed the mark on Good Friday, Nivedita Bhattacharjee, 6:55 PM on Mar 28, 2016

[8] https://www.techinasia.com/myntra-snapdeal-good-friday

[9] http://www.hindustantimes.com/business/snapdeal-s-faux-pas-good-friday-sales-tagline-backfires/story-gSgHhoVtFzmIGxznabQaTO.html

[10]  “Pima County in Arizona Replaces Columbus Day with Black Friday”. BestBlackFriday.com. August 7, 2013.

[11] International Council of Shopping Centers.“Holiday Watch: Media Guide 2006 Holiday Facts and Figure”.; ShopperTrak, Press Release,ShopperTrak Reports Positive Response to Early Holiday Promotions Boosts Projections for 2010 Holiday Season at the Wayback Machine (archived November 29, 2010) (November 16, 2010).

Ramajanmabhumi-Babarimasjid, evidences and Court or Hisorians as witnesses and Sunni Wakf Board Experts!

October 16, 2010

Ramajanmabhumi-Babarimasjid, evidences and Court or

Hisorians as witnesses and Sunni Wakf Board Experts!

Vedaprakash

Ramajanmabhumi-Babarimasjid and eminent hisorians: The eminent historians would appear immediately, whenever “Rama” appears in the headlines of Indian media. They start interpreting historicity of “Ramayana” according to their own way without any regard for the other view or perspective[1]. Even in the case of Sethu-samuthram, they started writing in “the Hindu” and EPW grinding their mills as usual[2]. Of course, the left media does / did not want the opinion of the others[3]. They vociferously lecture and write that they would appeal against the judgment and so on, but disappear thereafter. They exploit every forum like IHC etc., only to project their viewpoint[4]. Romila Thapar roared, “We would appeal against this jugment”, when the so-called “Hindutva judgment” came[5], but nothing happened! And the faithful readers of “The Hindu”, Frontline, EPW and the devoted members of IHC etc., also do not bother as to why their eminent historians tell lies or play such dubious games? Why they believe the eminent historians, because of their eminence or for their duplicity? Have they ever thought about them as to why they behave like that? Now, again these left / eminent intellectuals / historians have been busy with issuing statements. Besides, historians and experts others too join!

130 experts sign – ASI report should be made public, says appeal to Chief Justice[6] (14-10-2010): Now 130 experts have come out with an open letter addressed to the Chief Justice of India! The news reports say like this, “The Allahabad High Court based a significant part of its judgment in the Ayodhya case on the evidence provided by the Archaeological Survey of India’s report on its excavations at the site, submitted to the court in 2003. They accuse that the report is still hidden from the public eye, and a virtual gag order placed on archaeologists who acted as observers during the excavation[7]. Now that the judgment has been pronounced, a group of 130 academics, activists and intellectuals have demanded that the ASI report be published. In an open letter[8] to the Chief Justice of India and the Chief Justice of the Allahabad High Court, they urged that the report “be made available for scrutiny in the public domain, especially to scholars, as it is now a part of the public judicial record.” The ASI report, which concluded that a temple had existed at the site, has been criticised by many archaeologists for ignoring evidence such as animal bones, which would not have been found in a temple for Ram, and the existence of glazed pottery and graves at all levels which indicated Muslim residence”[9].

Shereen Ratnagar and D. Mandal were slapped with contempt of court charges by the Allahabad High Court: “In May, archaeologists Shereen Ratnagar and D. Mandal were slapped with contempt of court charges by the Allahabad High Court for sharing their observations in a book, titled “Ayodhya: Archaeology After Excavation”, published by Tulika in 2007. The orders in that case have been reserved”. That means they know the implications of the law. That is why they have been keeping quite since 2003!

The open letter and signatories: “The open letter notes that, “the world at large is equally constrained to silence. Such a judicially ordained zone of uncertainty curbs freedom of expression and fair comment.” Indians have never seen them in other caes where such issues have been involved. Thus, they want to selective!

Signatories: “The letter was signed by well-known Indian academics such as Sumit Sarkar, Uma Chakravarti, K.N. Pannikkar, K. Satchidanandan, Ajay Dandekar and filmmakers such as Anand Patwardhan, as well as less well-known Indian citizens – a software engineer, a textile design consultant, a teacher[10]. Academics from abroad – including those from universities in London, Chicago, Stockholm and Copenhagen – have also signed the letter, as friends of India”. This type of letters have been issued since 1992 and many times, the so-called signatories say that they have simply agreed to include their names in such letters. In some cases, they did / do not know also about the inclusion of their names!

Romila Thapar and others: Statement issued through Sahamat (01-10-2010): Another report goes like this: “Questioning the verdict of the Allahabad High Court on the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid title suits, a group of left-leaning intellectuals on Friday said the judgment was “yet another blow to the secular fabric of the country” and the “repute of our judiciary”.  The scholars, including Romila Thapar, K M Shrimali, K N Pannikar, Irfan Habib, Utsa Patnaik and C P Chandrasekhar, said in a statement through the platform of Safdar Hashmi Memorial Trust (SAHMAT) that the verdict had raised “serious concerns” because of the way history, reason and secular values had been treated in it. “The view that the Babri Masjid was built at the site of a Hindu temple, which has been maintained by two of the three judges, takes no account of all the evidence contrary to this fact turned up by the Archaeological Survey of India’s own excavations — the presence of animal bones throughout as well as the use of ‘surkhi’ and lime mortar (all characteristic of Muslim presence) rule out the possibility of a Hindu temple having been there beneath the mosque,” the statement noted.

The verdict on Ayodhya: a historian’s perspective[11] (01-10-2010): Under this caption, the view of romila thapar appeared in “The Hindu”. It goes like this, “It has annulled respect for history and seeks to replace it with religious faith.

“The verdict is a political judgment and reflects a decision which could as well have been taken by the state years ago. Its focus is on the possession of land and the building a new temple to replace the destroyed mosque. The problem was entangled in contemporary politics involving religious identities but also claimed to be based on historical evidence. This latter aspect has been invoked but subsequently set aside in the judgment.

“The court has declared that a particular spot is where a divine or semi-divine person was born and where a new temple is to be built to commemorate the birth. This is in response to an appeal by Hindu faith and belief[12]. Given the absence of evidence in support of the claim, such a verdict is not what one expects from a court of law. Hindus deeply revere Rama as a deity but can this support a legal decision on claims to a birth-place, possession of land and the deliberate destruction of a major historical monument to assist in acquiring the land?

“The verdict claims that there was a temple of the 12th Century AD at the site which was destroyed to build the mosque — hence the legitimacy of building a new temple.

“The excavations of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) and its readings have been fully accepted even though these have been strongly disputed by other archaeologists and historians. Since this is a matter of professional expertise on which there was a sharp difference of opinion the categorical acceptance of the one point of view, and that too in a simplistic manner, does little to build confidence in the verdict. One judge stated that he did not delve into the historical aspect since he was not a historian but went to say that history and archaeology were not absolutely essential to decide these suits! Yet what are at issue are the historicity of the claims and the historical structures of the past one millennium.

“A mosque built almost 500 years ago and which was part of our cultural heritage[13] was destroyed wilfully by a mob urged on by a political leadership. There is no mention in the summary of the verdict that this act of wanton destruction, and a crime against our heritage, should be condemned. The new temple will have its sanctum — the presumed birthplace of Rama — in the area of the debris of the mosque. Whereas the destruction of the supposed temple is condemned and becomes the justification for building a new temple, the destruction of the mosque is not, perhaps by placing it conveniently outside the purview of the case.

Has created a precedent[14]: The verdict has created a precedent in the court of law that land can be claimed by declaring it to be the birthplace of a divine or semi-divine being worshipped by a group that defines itself as a community. There will now be many such janmasthans wherever appropriate property can be found or a required dispute manufactured. Since the deliberate destruction of historical monuments has not been condemned what is to stop people from continuing to destroy others? The legislation of 1993 against changing the status of places of worship has been, as we have seen in recent years, quite ineffective.

What happened in history, happened. It cannot be changed[15]. But we can learn to understand what happened in its fuller context and strive to look at it on the basis of reliable evidence. We cannot change the pas[16]t to justify the politics of the present. The verdict has annulled respect for history and seeks to replace history with religious faith. True reconciliation can only come when there is confidence that the law in this country bases itself not just on faith and belief, but on evidence”.

Earlier stand – Irfan Habib (01-10-2010): “With the three judges pronouncing differing opinions on the historical and archaeological aspects of the case in the Allahabad High Court’s judgement on the disputed land in Ayodhya, many leading historians have been left bemused. “It’s not a logical judgement with so many parts going 2-1. One does not accept the logicality of the judgement,” said Irfan Habib, a noted historian and a former Chairman of the Indian Council of Historical Research who earlier taught at the Aligarh Muslim University. He noted that the verdict seemed to legitimise the events of 1949[17], when an idol was placed inside the mosque, by constant references. On the other hand, by minimising any mentions of the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the court seemed to be disregarding it, he said. He also expressed surprise that two judges questioned the date of construction of the Babri Masjid, as well as the involvement of emperor Babar or his commander Mir Baqi, since there had been clear inscriptions to this effect before the demolition. “Things that are totally clear historically, the court has tried to muddy,” he said[18].

D. N. Jha: “The historical evidence has not been taken into account,” said D.N. Jha, history professor at the Delhi University. Noting the judgement’s mention of the “faith and belief of Hindus” in reference to the history of the disputed structure, Dr. Jha asked why the court had requested an excavation of the site.“If it is a case of ‘belief,’ then it becomes an issue of theology, not archaeology. Should the judiciary be deciding cases on the basis of theology is a question that needs to be asked,” he said.

Supriya Verma, one of the observers: Professional archaeologists also noted that the judges did not seem to rely heavily on the Archaeological Survey of India’s court-directed excavation of the site in 2003, at least in the summaries of their verdict available on Thursday evening. “Somewhere, there is doubt about the credibility of that report,” said Supriya Verma of the Jawaharlal Nehru University, who acted as an observer during the ASI excavation. She noted that neither Justice Sudhir Agarwal nor Justice Dharam Veer Sharma even referenced the ASI report to support his conclusion on the existence of a temple on the site before the mosque was built. “It is almost as though they themselves were not convinced by the evidence. They are clearly conceding that there was no archaeological evidence of a temple or of its demolition…It is a judgement of theology,” she said.

Jaya Menon, one of the observers: Another observer of the ASI excavation, Jaya Menon of the Aligarh Muslim University, noted that the ASI report itself did not provide any evidence of a demolition, and only asserted the existence of a temple in its conclusion. “So I don’t know on what basis they made their judgements,” she said. The ASI report had been criticised by many archaeologists for ignoring evidence such as animal bones, which would not have been found in a temple for Ram, and the existence of glazed pottery and graves which indicated Muslim residents.

The eminent historians as witnesses of Muslims in the Allahabad case: The eminent historians, historical experts  and leftist manufacturers never bother about their secular credentials.  It is not known as to why these coteries should always support for the Masjid or Muslim cause. Ironically, the following have been the witnesses of the case in question, which is criticised by them:

Sl.No Witness no Name of the witness
1 Witness No. 63 R.S. Sharma
2 Witness No. 64 Suraj Bhan
3 Witness No. 65 D.N. Jha[19]
4 Witness No. 66 Romila Thapar
5 Witness No. 70 Irfan Habib
6 Witness No. 72 B.N. Pandey
7 Witness No. 95 K.M. Shrimali
8 Witness No. 99 Satish Chandra
9 Witness No. 102 Gyanendra Pandey

Then, where is their loci standi in criticising the judgment and Court? As witnesses, definitely, they could have deposed before the judges presenting their “historical facts” as they only know how to interpret! The public perhaps, even today do not know that in secular India, these historians stood witnesses to the Muslims! Why none has appeared for Hindus or temple cause? When the cold-blooded terrorist and heinous killer like Kasab is given legal aid, why none appeared for the non-Muslim and non-mosque group? Where is secularism? Would they come out in the public what they told to the judges in the Court? However, the poor show showed in the court by them raises many questions.

HC judge exposed experts espousing Masjids cause: Waqf Board Line-Up Accused Of Having Ostrich-Like Attitude:  The role played by independent experts, historians and archaeologists who appeared on behalf of the Waqf Board to support its claim has come in for criticism by one Allahabad High Court judge in the Ayodhya verdict. While the special bench of three judges unanimously dismissed objections raised by the experts to the presence of a temple, it was Justice Sudhir Agarwal who put their claims to extended judicial scrutiny. Most of these experts deposed twice. Before the ASI excavations, they said there was no temple beneath the mosque and, after the site had been dug up,they claimed what was unearthed was a mosque or a stupa. During lengthy cross-examination spread over several pages and recorded by Justice Agarwal, the historians and experts were subjected to pointed queries about their expertise, background and basis for their opinions.
To the courts astonishment, some who had written signed articles and issued pamphlets, were withering under scrutiny and the judge said they were displayed an ostrich-like attitude to facts. He also pointed out how the independent witnesses were connected one had done a PhD under the other, another had contributed an article to a book penned by a witness.

The vociverous historians could not give evidences properly as witnesses with all their extertise[20]: Some instances underlined by the judge are[21]:

  • Suvira Jaiswal[22] deposed whatever knowledge I gained with respect to disputed site is based on newspaper reports or what others told (other experts). She said she prepared a report on the Babri dispute on basis of discussions with medieval history expert in my department.

  • Supriya Verma[23], another expert who challenged the ASI excavations, had not read the ground penetration radar survey report that led the court to order an excavation. She did her PhD under another expert Shireen F Ratnagar.

  • Verma and Jaya Menon[24] alleged that pillar bases at the excavated site had been planted but HC found they were not present at the time the actual excavation took place.

  • Archaeologist Shereen F Ratnagar has written the introduction to the book of another expert who deposed, Professor Mandal. She admitted she had no field experience.

Normally, courts do not make adverse comments on the deposition of a witness and suffice it to consider whether it is credible or not, but we find it difficult to resist ourselves in this particular case considering the sensitivity and nature of dispute and also the reckless and irresponsible kind of statements…[25] the judge noted. He said opinions had been offered without making a proper investigation, research or study in the subject. The judge said he was startled and puzzled by contradictory statements.When expert witness Suraj Bhan deposed on the Babri mosque, the weight of his evidence was contradicted by anotherexpert for Muslim parties, Shirin Musavi, who told the court that Bhan is an archaeologist and not an expert on medieval history[26]. Justice Agarwal noted that instead of helping in making a cordial atmosphere it tends to create more complications, conflict and controversy. He pointed out that experts carry weight with public opinion.

When the matter is subjudice, one has to obey law: It is a simple matter that whenever, any issue / case is pending with the Court, as the matter is subjudice, it should not be discussed or the decisions cannot be drawn in favour of anybody. However, these left historians etc., have been always speaking and writing supporting for Muslim cause or against Hindus, as is evident from their own recorded / printed statements / articles always published in the selected in few journals / ndewspapers. Unfortunately, they have even agreed to be witnesses for the Wakf Board in the Allahabad Court as their names are figuring. Ironivcally, they are called as Sunni Wakf Board experts![27]

When religions rely upon belief system, so also secularism historians too belive so ignoring objectivity: Like believers and dis-believers historians too believe and compel others to believe their perspective without any objectivity. As their objectivity differes, their perspective also differ, but try to argue with ideology, as could be understood by others. With belief system, no two ideologists could come together; with objectivity no two historians could accept the same historical event in the same view or pwerspective; here, the media has been projecting only one view. So what about the other view and why the media does not provide opportunity to accommodate their view? Should “audi alteram partem – hear the other side and decide” be applicable only to the Courts according to the principle of natural justice or the historians do not want to follow?

The same pattern as noted in the case of DK, DMK and other rapid atheists and radical experts is noted in the case of these eminent historians or Sunni Wakf Board experts: As it is pointed out in the case of DK[28]-DMK[29] radicals and rabid atheist groups that they do not come to Courts or face courts, though, they used to cry and roar that they are not afraid of Courts and so on. Here, also, suppressing the facts, these historians talk and write one thing in the dailies and cover up their mumbling and bungling in the court. The court recordings of the witnesses have been actually exposing their hollowness of expertise, deceptiveness of historical knowledge and their dubious role as witnesses. That they accuse even without seeing, even without reading or just discussing with others etc, prove their capacity of manoeuvring and manipulation of academics. How they get PhDs etc., only prove such academic degradation and professional pampering without any shame or remorse. It is open secret that the JNU, AMU, DU, IHC, ICHR and others at one side and BMAC, Sunni Wakf Board, AIMPLB at the other side have been playing communalism under the guise of secularism. Just by accusing others they cannot live, survive and continue their careers in this competitive world.

Why the eminent historians and Sunni Wakf Board experts did not respond to the remarks of the Judge? Definitely, the remarks of the Judge have been questioning the integrity of the eminent historians and Sunni Wakf Board experts, who deposed before the court as witnesses! They cannot simply brush aside such exposure, as it casts aspersion on their position. The English reading Indians and Indian students may doubt their veracity, reliability and uprightness, as they read their writings or listen to them. Therefore, they should go to court to clear the mess instead of shooting out letters to the Chief Justice just like politicians.

Indians and Indian youth should note as to whether these Sunni Board experts should teach history. Very often, it is said, claimed and propagated that India is / has been secular. Yes, how then the eminent historians professional archaeologists acted as Sunni Wakf Board experts and deposed as witnesses to the Muslims? Why these retired historians, senile professors and their working agents always make clamor about history, historicity and historiography in India, as if they are the sole selling agents of such stuff? Nowadays, the fact is that a few have been takers for history and most of the universities have dispensed with history subject. Definitely, the so-called historians have lost their importance and thus they tried to struggle for survival with the political and communal support. Now, the documents are available to all and the facts are known to everybody who access them through internet or otherwise. Common people may not know or understand the deceptive talkings and writings of the eminent historians or Sunni Wakf Board experts, but slowly they come to know. They easily understand that who want to settle the dispute and who want to continue the dispute for their stakes. Definitely, Muslims and Hindus want to settle the issue once for all, but these history gamblers and politicians want to continue. Therefore, the will of people prevail.

Vedaprakash

16-10-2010


 

[2] Romila Thapar, “Where fusion cannot work – faith and history” (the Hindu, dated September 28, 2007).

…………………., Historical Memory without History, in Economic and Political weekly, VOL 42 No. 39 September 29 – October 05, 2007, pp.3903-3905.

K. N. Panikkar, Myth, history and politics, Frontline, October 5, 2007, pp.21-24.

Suraj Bhan, “Government should have stood by ASI”, Ibid, pp.19-20.

[4] During the 2007-IHC session, Suvira Jaiswal was making such satatements. Then, in Delhi also they tried take up the matter. Now, in February 2011 at Malda, they may raise the issue. However, the Indians have to weait and see.

[5] In “the Hindu”, as usual, the news appeared with her photo and all, but after that everbody would have forgot about it! However, their warrior-like talk, veiled threatening and tactics of suppression of facts cannot be acquired by others.

[6] The Hindu, ASI report should be made public, says appeal to Chief Justice, Published: October 14, 2010 01:54 IST | Updated: October 14, 2010 02:03 IST; http://www.hindu.com/2010/10/14/stories/2010101464751800.htm

[7] How this has been a blatant lie has been exposed by the judge and that is why these guys have now tried to save their image by writing such letters. Of course, the media gives due publicity to such hypes and gimmicks.

[8] However, their mumbling, jumbling and bungling deposes before the Court have been kept as closed secret!

[9] Thus the eminent historians look for a non-vegetarian kitchen of Muslims there instrad of a temple. The same experts declared that the 16” inscription was planted by the Karsevaks in 1992.

[10] When Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti works on the same lines, the same eminent historians make fun of having such diversified experts, but now they themselves have such signatories, just to project their strength.

[11] The Hindu, Published: October 2, 2010 00:41 IST | Updated: October 2, 2010.

[12] There is nothing new in Romila’s argument, as she repeats the same matter again and again. The unfortunate thing is that she like her friends always want others should accept their views!

[13] How they contradict in their views legally can be noted in such statements. When convenience comes, they forget law, when law is against them, they start talking generalization or raise the bogey of “Hindutva”!

[14] Law precedence is created in the Court. Yes, definitely, the judges are the persons to create and others have to accept. Of course, the appealable legal remedy is there.

[15] But whatever happened also cannot be forgotten. When the same historians want to whitewash the temple destruction of the Muslims and accept only the Muslim contribution, such type of exclusivist logic is not explained. Why the students should not know the facts? In law it is said audi alteram partem – hear the other side and decide. How then historians want to decide without knowing the other side?

[16] Why then the interpretation of the past is always different for different historians? Nowadays, historians do not want objectivity also. How then they woerry about accuracy, when they themselves are not worried about it?

[17] Acts and Rules are within the time frame work. All know that Places of Worship Act is there and it e3xempts only this place and not others. Why then they talk about pre-1947 and after 1947, when law its4elf  cannot do so?

[18]The Hindu, Historical evidence ignored, say historians, dated October 1, 2010, http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article805087.ece

[23] It is interesting to note that the ASI report talks about a shrine followed by a temple with different structural phases, it also talks of “animal bones recovered from various levels of different periods”. If any shrine and a temple existed how can anyone account for the animal bones, Supriya Verma asks? She also maintains that stones and decorated bricks could have been used in any building, not necessarily only in a temple. Also, the carved architectural members have come from the debris and not from the stratified context.

[24] She got appointment in the AMU after she started supporting the cause of mosque and appeared as Sunni Wakf Board expert!

[25] The historians who deposed as witnesses and as well as others should carefully read this and understand their postion. They cannot pretend as if nothing happened or pose as great authorities and roam here and there in historical forums and conferences. Now Indians have also understood their double-games, double-speak and double-standards.

[26] Nowadays, just like medical experts or specialized doctors, these historians ad archaeologists trading charges like this – so-and-so is an expert in that field and he alone can know the truth and others cannot know the truth. Such type of exclusive mind-set exposes their arrogance and weakness and not the real expertise.

[27]Asghar ali Engineer, Archaeological Excavations and Temple, September 1-15, 2003,  http://www.csss-isla.com/arch%20150.htm

[28] Vedaprakash, Old Judgments and  New thoughts in the present context: S. Veerabadran Chettiar vs E. V. Ramaswami Naicker  others., http://vedaprakash.indiainteracts.in/2008/08/09/old-judgments-and-new-thoughts-in-the-present-context-s-veerabadran-chettiar-vs-e-v-ramaswami-naicker-others/

Problems in Historiography

May 9, 2007

In spite of having vast area with millions of monuments, inscriptions, palm-leaf books on various subjects, oldest languages, periodical celebration of festivals and ceremonies, culture, heritage, tradition and civilization, India has been accused of not having “history” before “Mauryas”.

At one side, Indian children and youth are taught about their thousands of years old culture, tradition etc., with c.3500 BCE old Sanskrit literature etc., whereas at the other side, historians write that before c.300 BCE, India had no history.

Then what happened in India?

Were Indians roaming as megalithic, neolithic, mesolithic, and paleolithic men here and there before c.300 BCE?

How then, the Egypts, Persians and Greeks were getting Gold and Iron from these barbarians ad uncivilized stone-age brutes?

Why the Egyptian, Assyrian, Sumerian and other ancient civilizations had been after India to get Indian goods?

How they could have obtained gold, iron, nice rice, fine teak, beautiful peacock, shining pearls, soft textiles etc., from them?

From IVC to Mauryan period, what happened?

How then, the poor Indians have been carrying over the same stories of Ramayana ad Mahabharata over more than 2000 years?

Were the ancient Tamil / “Sangam” poets liars to record and carry over such myth?

How these Indians living language without script, mathematics without numbers, sculptures without geometry, calendar without time-reckoning, astronomy without any observation, philosophy without thinking (by being stone-age men), navigation without ships, etc?

If one has to believe Herodotus, the “Father of History”, Indians were having two heads, three eyes, ants with dog-size, trees with growing wool, etc. So in such “fairy land”, the barbaria Indiandd should have exported all their goods catrering to their needs.

So, it is clear that something is wrong somewhere in Indian history?

How it has happened without diagnosis?

Why it is continuing?

Like this, many questions are to be answered.